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      <title>China-Canada Investment &#8220;Straitjacket:&#8221; Interview with Gus Van Harten Part 3</title>
      <link>https://thenarwhal.ca/china-canada-investment-straitjacket-interview-gus-van-harten-part-3/?utm_source=rss</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost.com/narwhal/2012/10/19/china-canada-investment-straitjacket-interview-gus-van-harten-part-3/</guid>
			<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 18:00:52 +0000</pubDate>			
			<description><![CDATA[This is the third and final post in the series&#160;China-Canada Investment &#34;Straitjacket:&#34; Exclusive Interview with Gus Van Harten. You can access Part 1 here and Part 2 here. Canada has already begun the short countdown to the day the China-Canada Investment Deal becomes ratified in the House of Commons, although the nation has been granted...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<figure><img width="640" height="358" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/shutterstock_107126552.jpg" class="attachment-banner size-banner wp-post-image" alt="" decoding="async" fetchpriority="high" srcset="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/shutterstock_107126552.jpg 640w, https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/shutterstock_107126552-450x252.jpg 450w, https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/shutterstock_107126552-20x11.jpg 20w, https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/shutterstock_107126552-300x168.jpg 300w" sizes="(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px" /><figcaption><small><em></em></small></figcaption></figure> <p>This is the third and final post in the series&nbsp;<em>China-Canada Investment "Straitjacket:" Exclusive Interview with Gus Van Harten</em>. You can access <a href="http://www.desmogblog.com/2012/10/15/china-canada-investment-treaty-designed-be-straight-jacket-canada-exclusive-interview-trade-investment-lawyer-gus-van" rel="noopener">Part 1 here</a> and <a href="http://www.desmogblog.com/2012/10/16/china-canada-investment-straitjacket-interview-gus-van-harten-part-2" rel="noopener">Part 2 here</a>.</p>

	Canada has already begun the short countdown to the day the China-Canada Investment Deal becomes ratified in the House of Commons, although the nation has been granted no opportunity to clarify or discuss the full economic or environmental significance of the agreement &ndash; the most significant in Canada's history since NAFTA.

	&nbsp;

	Prime Minister Harper, who <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/harper-arrives-in-russia-for-21-nation-apec-summit/article4525943/" rel="noopener">signed the agreement in Vladivostok</a> in September, is forcing this deal through with such force and brevity it makes the <a href="http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1216175--environmental-crisis-we-have-a-democratic-crisis" rel="noopener">undemocratic Omnibus budget bill C-38</a> look like a dress rehearsal.&nbsp;

	&nbsp;

	International investment lawyer and trade agreement expert Gus Van Harten has landed center-stage in the controversy as one of the only figures willing and qualified to speak up against the investment agreement. He told DeSmog that Canada's rush to enter into an investment deal of this sort endangers Canadian democracy, threatens Canadian sovereignty and could fracture the government's loyalty to its people.&nbsp;

	&nbsp;

	In this post, the final segment of our interview with Van Harten, he discusses in more detail just how bad this deal is for Canada economically and how much it threatens to corrupt our way of doing business.&nbsp;
<p><!--break--></p>

	&nbsp;
<p>[view:in_this_series=block_1]</p>

	Below is Part 3 of our interview:

	&nbsp;

	Carol Linnitt: I&rsquo;ve got a couple other questions for you. Maybe I&rsquo;ll ask you about transparency. So, any challenge that Chinese investors might pose to the Canadian government in regards to legal frameworks, this all can happen behind closed doors, in the sense that the Canadian public will have no idea that this is happening whatsoever, and have no possibility of even participating in a discussion about the outcome or the decisions the Canadian government makes.

	&nbsp;

	<strong>Gus Van Harten</strong>: <strong>In the arbitrations, the only parties that have a right to standing are the national government of the country that&rsquo;s been sued, the federal government, and the investors. No one else, native groups in BC, the British Columbia government, domestic Canadian companies, even if their rights or interests are affected directly by the occasion, let&rsquo;s say their reputation is affected, they have no right of standing.</strong> That is because it&rsquo;s an international arbitration, so it&rsquo;s not exceptional in that context.

	&nbsp;

	What&rsquo;s exceptional is that they allow this private investor to go into the international arbitration, but no other private party. The point is, the <em>Canadian government</em> reserved the right in the treaty to keep claims by Chinese investors against Canada, against the Canadian governments, to keep those confidential if the Canadian government decides that it is in the public interest to do that.

	&nbsp;

	<strong>So that raises the question, when will the Canadian government think it is not in the public interest to tell Canadians that Canada has been sued by a Chinese investor?</strong> The treaty clearly contemplates that there will be such situations. If the government wanted to make all of these claims public, it could easily have done so in the treaty, because that&rsquo;s what it has done in the past treaties, that it signed with countries like Romania for example.&nbsp;

	&nbsp;

	CL: Okay.

	&nbsp;

	<strong>GVH</strong>: So we can presume that some or many or even all of the arbitration claims may not in fact be made public. That is, the hearings may not be made public and documents associated with the arbitration may not be made public. <strong>I should stress, the treaty does provide for any awards to be made public, but also important are the submissions that the parties are making in the arbitration, especially our own government on our behalf. Those should also be public, but the government has said that it can keep them confidential if the government considers it to be in the public interest under the treaty.</strong>

	&nbsp;

	<img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/Harper%20Great%20Wall%20China.jpeg">

	&nbsp;

	CL: This is interesting too because if we are looking at this deal as a great economic opportunity in terms of Canada&rsquo;s doors being open to the fastest growing global economy in the world right now, is there additional element of say, economic entanglement that will complicate these issues further, if say we become reliant upon Chinese investment and also the availability of Chinese markets for our products. Does that add an additional layer of complication to the way that decisions will be made with this deal?

	&nbsp;

	<strong>GVH</strong>: Well,<strong> what this deal is setting up is for us to play the role of the supplier of raw resources to feed the Chinese industrial machine. We will have difficulty competing with Chinese manufacturing because of the extremely low cost of labour in China. </strong>Because the lack of regulation of various aspects that we would regulate here, because of the immense amount of money the Chinese are investing in research and development, and because the Chinese are very quickly copying western technology, they in fact use foreign investment as a way to get access to western technology. So the Chinese strategy is to set itself up as the manufacturing centre, and that&rsquo;s where the money is.

	&nbsp;

	<strong>The real economic benefits is not taking the resources out of the ground, it&rsquo;s adding value by manufacturing the resources and then exporting the manufactures.</strong> No country, or very few, has ever industrialised, and based its development on industrialisation, other than by setting up a manufacturing sector.&nbsp;

	&nbsp;

	<img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/Harper%20Chinese%20Workers.jpeg">

	&nbsp;

	<strong>So we are, in a sense, setting up conditions when we will simply supply resources to manufacturing in China. And that in a way is a kind of economically dependent relationship, because you&rsquo;re more vulnerable economically if your economy is too dependent on simply exporting raw materials and you leave the economic benefits from value-added activity and from the super profits that can come from developing manufactured goods that are the edge of the technology frontier. You give those opportunities over to China.</strong> And I think it&rsquo;s quite clear that that&rsquo;s the Chinese strategy and this deal fits right into it.&nbsp;

	&nbsp;

	It would be more beneficial to Canada if the deal at least allowed Canadian investors to buy Chinese companies, on a relativity widespread basis. But the deal does not do that. Also there could be benefits in having a wider trade deal in that Canadian exports would have more favourable access to the Chinese market than other countries receive under the world trade organisation rules.

	&nbsp;

	But we also haven&rsquo;t got that because we were told there&rsquo;s not going to be any trade deal for at least another ten years, if ever, so <strong>I think the Chinese have really got what they wanted out of this deal, and Canada did not get much in return</strong> if our aim was to counterbalance Chinese foreign ownership of our economy with opportunities for Canadian companies to own profitable assets in China or with opportunities to increase our ability to compete by exporting goods to China, other than obviously the raw materials in which the Chinese will own the rights.

	&nbsp;

	CL: And we&rsquo;ve already seen <a href="http://www.pembina.org/op-ed/2357" rel="noopener">a major flagging of the manufacturing sector in Canada </a>just by virtue of how much emphasis has been put on the export of raw materials, bitumen being just one of those.

	&nbsp;

	<em>[For the impact of the tar sands on the Canadian manufacturing sector, read the <a href="http://www.pembina.org/pub/2345" rel="noopener">Pembina Institute's "In the Shadow of the Boom: How Oilsands Development is Reshaping Canada's Economy."</a>]</em>

	&nbsp;

	<strong>GVH</strong>: Yes, I mean, it&rsquo;s pretty clear that the Harper government does not have as its priority support for the established manufacturing sector, and that its higher priority is to get investments into the resource sector to get the resources out of the ground and generate economic activity in that way. It&rsquo;s not a bad short-term strategy if you want to create some growth, but as a long term strategy it&rsquo;s not good because it puts too many of our eggs in one basket. And because resource prices are notoriously unreliable, and finally because <strong>if the resource extraction activities are owned by foreign companies, then over the long term they will be earning the profits from the exploitation of our resources rather than Canadian companies</strong>.&nbsp;

	&nbsp;

	CL: And doing so under a rubric of foreign design that might not serve Canadian interests or the interest of local communities, or upholding the rights of First Nations.

	&nbsp;

	<strong>GVH</strong>: <strong>Economically, socially, politically, culturally, it&rsquo;s less in Canadian control</strong>.&nbsp;

	&nbsp;

	<img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/harper%20china%20temple.jpeg">

	&nbsp;

	CL: I&rsquo;m so baffled that this kind of information hasn&rsquo;t been highlighted by the media, who have been covering this topic, because I&lsquo;m just shocked at how bad this deal is, how much it doesn&rsquo;t seem like a good opportunity for Canadians. Arguments in terms of economic security don&rsquo;t even really hold. Speaking environmentally, which is such a relevant issue with climate and the tar sands right now, this is a disaster. And in terms of the pipeline, which is massively important on the west side of Canada, no one is talking about the significance of this deal for these issues that are in the spotlight right now.

	&nbsp;

	<strong>GVH</strong>: Well, <strong>people don&rsquo;t understand how the treaties work and that&rsquo;s entirely fair, I mean it&rsquo;s complex, but those who do understand them, lawyers and academics, you see, I would say most of them make significant income, either working for investors or for states in investor-state arbitrations, working as arbitrators in these arbitrations, or working as experts hired by the investor or the state in the arbitration. </strong>

	&nbsp;

	<strong>I can&rsquo;t say that there&rsquo;s a massive conspiracy, but there&rsquo;s certainly a link between the way in which some commentators frame the system and evaluate risks arising from the system and tend to, in my view, understate those risks, slip them under the rug.</strong> A link between that and their own career track, and their own career interests, is apparent.

	&nbsp;

	Whether it&rsquo;s actually those interests that influence them I don&rsquo;t know, on an individual basis, but <strong>in terms of watching how the technical literature is written, how people comment publicly on the system, it seems to me that there is a legal and arbitration industry that has a lot of interest in these treaties, and less interest in how the treaties affect Canadian interests, for example, in our case</strong>.

	&nbsp;

	<img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/harper%20china%20tea.jpeg">

	&nbsp;

	CL: So the way that the treaty and this deal have been negotiated, it&rsquo;s all said and done at this point, so it&rsquo;s not as though the Canadian government could redefine its terms for example, at this stage.

	&nbsp;

	<strong>GVH</strong>: Nothing&rsquo;s completed yet, the treaty has not been ratified.

	&nbsp;

	CL: Okay.

	&nbsp;

	GVH: It&rsquo;s been signed but not ratified, and it has to be ratified to come into effect. <strong>The Canadian government said, &lsquo;look, it&rsquo;s going to come into effect after we&rsquo;ve put it before parliament for 21 days, and that&rsquo;s it. We&rsquo;re not going to have any public hearings about it; we&rsquo;re not going to have a vote in parliament about it, of course it would probably win the vote anyway; we&rsquo;re not going to put it to provincial legislators for a vote; we&rsquo;re not going to put it to a referendum.&rsquo;</strong> &nbsp;This is going to be in force after 21 days, that&rsquo;s sitting days of parliament, that&rsquo;s it. &nbsp;<strong>But, in the meantime the government can change its mind. I don&rsquo;t think they will, but at best it&rsquo;s important to at least, at this time, make people aware of just how significant a long-term decision this is going to be.</strong>

	&nbsp;

	CL: So what could you foresee being&hellip;how can we stop this? That&rsquo;s the question I really want to ask.

	&nbsp;

	GVH: Yes, other people are asking that question. I talked to one or two people about it and there are some ideas, but I&rsquo;m not really that optimistic. Not through the legislative process because the government controls that. The provinces might object, and the courts might play a role, possibly, but I'm not really holding my breath. I know that some provinces are aware of this and are not happy about it. &nbsp;<strong>I hope the provinces do pay attention and that one of them might take action to delay ratification, but time is getting very short.</strong>

	&nbsp;

	CL: Yes, very short.

	&nbsp;

	<img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/Harper%20China%20deal%20signing.jpeg">

	&nbsp;

	<strong>GVH</strong>: For example,<strong> I would have thought the current BC government and the incoming NDP government in BC would not be very keen to hear about how its options with respect to the northern gateway pipeline might be frustrated by this deal.</strong>

	&nbsp;

	CL: That would have been my next question, that is, what is BC&rsquo;s stance? So that&rsquo;s interesting. Perhaps some really, really outspoken provincial opposition could sway public opinion about the benefits of this deal.

	&nbsp;

	<strong>GVH</strong>: &hellip;to show how <strong>this deal appears designed to stop BC from blocking the Northern Gateway Pipeline.</strong>

	&nbsp;

	CL: That would definitely be relevant for people to be thinking about right now. It&rsquo;s hard not to be blindsided by some of the unexpected elements in the pipeline argument, you know, between provincial legislation and federal legislation, the transformation of our laws while the hearings are in place, that affect those hearings, province to province deals; it&rsquo;s had to wrap your mind around who actually has the decision making authority when it comes to this pipeline, and this is a really interesting new element to add to this whole issue.

	&nbsp;

	<strong>GVH</strong>: Yes, <strong>I assume that here are people in the provincial governments that are looking at this, but I don&rsquo;t think there are very many who really understand the implications fully</strong>.&nbsp;

	&nbsp;

	CL: And people who are in those positions have a thousand things to juggle, and just to wrap your head around this treaty and to get the details of it straight is a lot of work, and it&rsquo;s the kind of complications that don&rsquo;t play out well in the media. It&rsquo;s difficult to try to inform people about these kinds of things because of the sorts of technicalities difficulties involved.

	&nbsp;

	GVH: It&rsquo;s complicated, true. And a government can always throw up some lawyer in a suit to say, &lsquo;oh no, it&rsquo;s fine&rsquo;.&nbsp;

	&nbsp;

	<img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/Harper%20China%20building%20steps.jpeg">

	&nbsp;

	CL: Okay, I just have one last question for you. I wonder if you&rsquo;re familiar at all with the <a href="http://www.ethicaloil.org/" rel="noopener">'Ethical Oil'</a> campaign.

	&nbsp;

	GVH: You mean Ezra Levant&rsquo;s thing?

	&nbsp;

	CL: Yes, yes.

	&nbsp;

	GVH: Vaguely, I didn&rsquo;t really pay much attention to it.

	&nbsp;

	CL: Well it's still in play as as public opinion machine that is very active. In relation to the China-Canada deal, one Ethical Oil writer named <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jamie-ellerton/" rel="noopener">Jamie Ellerton</a> has written two pieces on Huffington Post Canada, arguing that Canada&rsquo;s oil will still be the most ethical oil in the world, even if China has a massive stake in the oil sands. He&rsquo;s saying our human rights record, our way of doing business, all of these things will persist, even if other international players who don&rsquo;t have good human rights records are involved, or we&rsquo;re entering into partnerships with them.

	&nbsp;

	<em>[Read: Ellerton's "<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jamie-ellerton/canada-oil_b_1861528.html" rel="noopener">No Foreign Investments Can Tarnish Our Ethical Oil</a>" and "<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jamie-ellerton/cnooc-deal_b_1699606.html" rel="noopener">Just Because They're Communitsts Doesn't Mean We Can't Do Business With Them</a>."]</em>

	&nbsp;

	And that&rsquo;s, for me, a very frustrating narrative that is emerging when we&rsquo;re discussing things like the oil sands. I feel like there&rsquo;s more serious conversations to be had and arguments in favour of 'ethical oil' are simply emotional fodder and not at all the specific conversations we need to have about Canada's economy, energy diversity, climate action, First Nations rights, democracy and the significance of our decisions for future generations.

	&nbsp;

	So I would like to counteract that narrative, and I&rsquo;m wondering if you could talk about the meaning of this deal for Canada in term of Ellerton's argument. If we consider ourselves responsible actors, and we have a good human rights record, could something like this deal have the capacity to transform that side of Canada? That way of doing business? How would that happen, what would that look like, what&rsquo;s the potential for Canada&rsquo;s position on those types of issues to change?

	&nbsp;

	<strong>GVH</strong>: I think that&rsquo;s a bit more removed, I mean it&rsquo;s just a bit more speculative. As to how this deal might undermine our reputation for ethical oil,<strong> I think the debate about whether Canadian oil is ethical, is really about something fundamental about the tar sands, and whether that oil should ever be taken out of the ground, because it&rsquo;s going to go into the atmosphere in carbon, and if it does, if a large amount of it does, the risks in terms of climate catastrophes are obviously going to be higher.</strong> So I am not sure this deal really accentuates, or somehow undermines, the case that otherwise would be in place for ethical oil.&nbsp;

	&nbsp;

	<img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/Harper%20China%20big%20chairs.jpeg">

	&nbsp;

	CL: The side of it that I&rsquo;m trying to pick up on is the issue of sovereignty. We may be able to say right now that Canada has great management structures in place, and equitable regulatory frameworks, and so on and so forth, even though I don&rsquo;t think that&rsquo;s the case, especially with first nations and&hellip;

	&nbsp;

	<strong>GVH</strong>: <strong>I guess perhaps the point is, you can't really talk about Canadian ethical oil anymore: it&rsquo;s really Chinese oil. It&rsquo;s Chinese oil that, because of this deal, is insulated from regulations and legislation in Canada, so this deal makes it increasingly Chinese oil. Rather than Canadian. It comes out of the ground in Canada, but many of the decisions about whether and how to take it out of the ground are going to be made by the Chinese investors. And they&rsquo;re going to be able to avoid, potentially, attempts by the Canadian parliament or a provincial legislature, Canadian governments, to put environmental, health and other kinds of standards on the exploitation of that resource.</strong>

	&nbsp;

	CL: I guess the reality is that by going ahead with this deal we are relinquishing some of our decision-making authority about the way that these resources are developed. So you can&rsquo;t just blanket it and say that this oil&rsquo;s developed according to Canadian values, because that will no longer be the case. And, in fact, I don&rsquo;t think it is the case right now. But, this is just a perfect point in case, where we are relinquishing our authority and our value base will change accordingly.

	&nbsp;

	Well, that gives me a lot of important material to work with. I&rsquo;ll be in touch with you, thanks again for your time, I really appreciate it.

	&nbsp;

	<strong>GVH</strong>: Okay, well good luck with your writing.

	&nbsp;

	CL: Yeah thanks, and you too. Nice to talk to you, bye.

	&nbsp;

	<em>[END OF INTERVIEW]</em>

	&nbsp;

	Gus Van Harten continues to write on the topic and has recently addressed an <a href="http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/10/16/China-Investment-Treaty/" rel="noopener">open letter</a> to Prime Minister Harper and the Honourable <a href="http://pm.gc.ca/eng/bio.asp?id=99" rel="noopener">Edward Fast</a>, Minister of International Trade and Minister of the Asia-Pacific Gateway, urging them to halt the trade agreement's ratification.

	&nbsp;

	<em>Van Harten's research is freely available on the <a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=638855" rel="noopener">Social Science Research Network </a>and the <a href="http://www.iiapp.org/" rel="noopener">International Investment Arbitration and Public Policy</a> website.</em>

	&nbsp;

	<em>Images from the <a href="http://pm.gc.ca/eng/media_gallery.asp?featureId=7&amp;pageId=29&amp;media_category_typ_id=3&amp;media_category_id=2079" rel="noopener">"PM visits China"</a> photo gallery.</em>

	&nbsp;

<p><em><strong>The Narwhal’s reporters are telling environment stories you won’t read about anywhere else. Stay in the loop by <a href="https://thenarwhal.ca/newsletter/?utm_source=rss">signing up for our free weekly dose of independent journalism</a>.</strong></em></p>]]></content:encoded>
      <dc:creator><![CDATA[Carol Linnitt]]></dc:creator>
						<category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[China-Canada Investment Treaty]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Enbridge]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[ethical oil]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Ethical Oil Institute]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Ezra Levant]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[FIPA]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Foreign Investment Protection Agreement]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Human Rights]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[human rights abuses]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Jamie Ellerton]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Northern Gateway Pipeline]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[oil sands]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[pembina institute]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Prime Minister Stephen Harper]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Q &amp; A]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[regulation]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[tar sands]]></category>			<media:content url="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/shutterstock_107126552-300x168.jpg" fileSize="4096" type="image/jpeg" medium="image" width="300" height="168"><media:credit></media:credit></media:content><media:thumbnail url="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/shutterstock_107126552-300x168.jpg" width="300" height="168" />    </item>
	    <item>
      <title>China-Canada Investment &#8220;Straitjacket:&#8221; Interview with Gus Van Harten Part 2</title>
      <link>https://thenarwhal.ca/china-canada-investment-straitjacket-interview-gus-van-harten-part-2/?utm_source=rss</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost.com/narwhal/2012/10/18/china-canada-investment-straitjacket-interview-gus-van-harten-part-2/</guid>
			<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:34:08 +0000</pubDate>			
			<description><![CDATA[This post is second in a series on the&#160;Canada-China Investment &#34;Straitjacket:&#34; Exclusive Interview with Gus Van Harten. You can read Part 1&#160;here&#160;and Part 3 here. Right now Canadians stare down the barrel of a 31-year long legal trade agreement with the Chinese government that did not become public knowledge until September 26, 2012. The trade...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<figure><img width="120" height="150" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Van_Harten1-1.jpeg" class="attachment-banner size-banner wp-post-image" alt="" decoding="async" srcset="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Van_Harten1-1.jpeg 120w, https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Van_Harten1-1-16x20.jpeg 16w" sizes="(max-width: 120px) 100vw, 120px" /><figcaption><small><em></em></small></figcaption></figure> <p>This post is second in a series on the&nbsp;<em>Canada-China Investment "Straitjacket:" Exclusive Interview with Gus Van Harten</em>. You can read <a href="http://www.desmogblog.com/2012/10/15/china-canada-investment-treaty-designed-be-straight-jacket-canada-exclusive-interview-trade-investment-lawyer-gus-van" rel="noopener">Part 1&nbsp;here</a>&nbsp;and <a href="https://thenarwhal.ca/2012/10/18/china-canada-investment-straitjacket-interview-gus-van-harten-part-3">Part 3 here</a>.</p>
<p>Right now Canadians stare down the barrel of a <a href="http://www.policyalternatives.ca/publications/commentary/canada-china-investment-deal-deserves-greater-public-scrutiny" rel="noopener">31-year long legal trade agreement</a><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/10/17/canada-china-fipa-critics-flawed_n_1975149.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-business" rel="noopener"> </a>with the Chinese government that did not become public knowledge until September 26, 2012.</p>
<p>	The trade treaty, known as the <a href="http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/china-chine/finalEA-china-chine-EEfinale.aspx?lang=eng&amp;view=d" rel="noopener">Foreign Investment Protection Agreement</a> or FIPA, has garnered notable opposition in the past three weeks, with <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/10/17/canada-china-fipa-critics-flawed_n_1975149.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-business" rel="noopener">NDP trade critic Don Davies calling for public hearings</a>, Green Party MP <a href="http://www.greenparty.ca/stop-the-sellout" rel="noopener">Elizabeth May calling for an emergency Parliamentary debate</a>, and campaign organizations <a href="http://www.leadnow.ca/canada-not-for-sale-sou" rel="noopener">Leadnow.ca and SumofUs.org gathering over 39,300 opposition signatures</a> (and counting) to deliver in person to Ottawa.</p>
<p>Yesterday, the <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/10/17/canada-china-fipa-critics-flawed_n_1975149.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-business" rel="noopener">Canadian Press</a> reported the Harper government's refusal to host public hearings. Elizabeth May's October 1 request was also denied on the grounds that <a href="http://www.greenparty.ca/stop-the-sellout" rel="noopener">FIPA does not meet the test of emergency</a>.</p>
<p>The trade agreement, or treaty, as it is called, is slated for ratification at the end of this month. The Commons trade committee will be briefed on the document in a one hour hearing.</p>
<p>With a trade deal that <a href="http://www.greenparty.ca/media-release/2012-10-01/may-request-emergency-debate-canada-china-investment-deal" rel="noopener">threatens Canadian sovereignty</a> looming on the horizon and a government committed to expediting its approval, DeSmog caught up with trade investment lawyer and Osgoode professor <a href="http://www.osgoode.yorku.ca/faculty/full-time/gus-van-harten" rel="noopener">Gus Van Harten</a> to talk through some of the details.</p>
<p><!--break--></p>
<p>In this segment Van Harten discusses <em>why</em> the Canadian government would pursue a deal of this sort, outlining the implications of the agreement for environmental legislation in Canada and development in the tar sands, especially in light of the spring's <a href="http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/06/06/a-rough-guide-to-bill-c-38/" rel="noopener">Omnibus budget bill C-38</a>.</p>
<p>[view:in_this_series=block_1]</p>
<p>Van Harten also considers the implications of the trade agreement for undecided energy projects like the Northern Gateway Pipeline and, significantly, if first nations and environmental groups were to blockade projects of this sort &ndash; who's rights the government would be obliged to protect.&nbsp;</p>
<p>Below is Part 2 of our interview:</p>
<p>Carol Linnitt: As you have described it, it doesn't seem to make much sense for Canada to sign this agreement.</p>
<p><strong>Gus Van Harten:</strong>&nbsp;I can tell you &ndash; trying to think about&nbsp;<em>why</em>&nbsp;the government would sign the China-Canada deal &ndash; it&rsquo;s very unfavourable to Canada because of the way in which, as I was saying earlier, we have an open economy and China&rsquo;s is closed, so the deal really, in fact appears likely to benefit Chinese investors far more than Canadian investors in China, because there will just be more Chinese investment here, because we&rsquo;ve allowed more in.&nbsp;<strong>But I was trying to think why the government might do it, well I thought of different reasons, one might be that they sort of want to score the political bragging rights, of, &lsquo;we signed the deal&rsquo;, which is, you know, very short sighted, but sometimes governments are kind of shallow like that.</strong></p>
<p>Another explanation would be that they want to open up the economy to this investment, and so that shareholders in Canadian companies in the oil patch can sell their shares at a premium to the Chinese, and get that benefit.</p>
<p><strong>But another more troubling explanation which would require greater sophistication by the government but is not &ndash; certainly shouldn&rsquo;t be ruled out &ndash; is that they foresee changes in attitudes about the oil patch, in the United States, in Canada, and that this may lead to new regulations on the oil patch, in that, climate can&rsquo;t just be wished away forever, and that governments might take steps to regulate the oil patch in ways that investors wouldn&rsquo;t like.</strong></p>
<p><strong>If you bring in a lot of Chinese investments, and you sign the Canada investment deal, you kind of get the Chinese investors to do your dirty work for you, for years after the current government is gone, because the Chinese investors can beat up on new governments that actually do take steps to change the balance between the investor rights in the oil patch and the general interest in addressing climate change or other issues like pollution and so on.</strong></p>
<p>CL: Wow.</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>:&nbsp;<strong>So that&rsquo;s probably the most troubling aspect, is that this is designed to be a straitjacket, and it will have effect on Chinese investments that have been let in for the next 31 years after the deal&rsquo;s been signed.</strong>&nbsp;Because the deal has a 15 year term, you have to give another year&rsquo;s notice to terminate the deal and then after it&rsquo;s terminated it still applies for another 15 years for investments that are in the country at the time of termination.</p>
<p>CL: So you&rsquo;re saying that this deal has an active shelf life of 15 years, but stays in effect for 31 years?</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: Yes, the treaty does, meaning the treaty will be available to protect Chinese investors, including not just the Nexen investors, if they&rsquo;re allowed to buy Nexen, but any other Chinese investors who come into the oil patch.&nbsp;<strong>I don&rsquo;t think the government wants to see the whole oil patch Chinese owned, but I think it&rsquo;s quite likely we&rsquo;ll see significant portions of it Chinese owned, and once significant portions are Chinese owned, the you&rsquo;ve also given lawyers who work for the Chinese investors this powerful tool to beat up on governments anywhere in Canada, you really frustrate the ability of Canadians to elect governments that are going to get more serious about the environmental consequences of the oil patch.</strong>&nbsp;That will be for 31 years from the date of this deal coming into effect, which is right now forecast to be about a two weeks away.</p>
<p><img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/Harper%20wife%20China.jpeg"></p>
<p>CL:&nbsp;<strong>And what&rsquo;s the significance of that for, say, something like the northern gateway pipeline project that&rsquo;s still in decision process?</strong></p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: Well, I mean, first of all, if that pipeline is owned,&nbsp;<strong>if foreign investors are spending money in relation to the proposed pipeline, then they right there could conceivably use the China-Canada deal to object to decisions taken by Canada, for example the British Columbian government, in objection to the pipeline.</strong>&nbsp;So the BC government may say &lsquo;we don&rsquo;t like the deal for the pipeline, we won&rsquo;t supply electricity to it,&rsquo; well if they did that and the pipeline had Chinese money in it, the Chinese investors could say &lsquo;you are discriminating against us, you don&rsquo;t treat other investors in pipelines the same way in BC, so why are you discriminating with this pipeline, you&rsquo;re not allowed to do it, and any money we lose as a result, you have to compensate us. You, Canada.&rsquo;</p>
<p><strong>And that&rsquo;s not just the money that they put into the pipelines, they that&rsquo;s their lost profits, that&rsquo;s the money that otherwise reasonably would have earned, had this pipeline gone forward.</strong></p>
<p><strong><img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/Harper%20China%20Canada%20Flags.jpeg"></strong></p>
<p>CL: I&rsquo;m thinking about how tenuous the situation has already become in terms of environmental regulations after the<a href="http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/06/06/a-rough-guide-to-bill-c-38/" rel="noopener"> Omnibus budget bill</a> was passed and we saw a severe weakening of our environmental reviews and assessments and regulations. In effect the Harper government has instituted this new legal framework in which our pre-existing environmental laws have been weakened, gutted and now we are introducing this new 'straitjacket' to maintain those laws because of the possible difficulty of ever reinstituting them in stronger ways.</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: <strong>Yes, exactly, and let me spell it out very precisely</strong>. In many cases the arbitrators have allowed the investors to argue under the treaties that their treatment by the government was unfair and inequitable, if the government did not provide a stable regulatory framework. So if the regulatory framework is in a particular state, let&rsquo;s say its currently denuded state because of the changes in the spring budget to environmental legislation,&nbsp;<strong>investors from China now say &lsquo;well, we&rsquo;re going to invest now because we don&rsquo;t think any of our projects will be subject to environmental assessments and fisheries act regulations&rsquo;, and so on. A new government comes in when the projects are underway, and says, &lsquo;well actually we&rsquo;re putting the laws back in place&rsquo;. The Chinese investor can then say 'ah, but you can&rsquo;t because we made our investments based on an expectation that there was a stable regulatory framework and that the previous government promised us that that regulatory framework would be stable&rsquo;.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And so you can&rsquo;t change the laws so easily</strong>. I&rsquo;m not saying that the arbitrators necessarily would, but many have, interpreted the treaties broadly enough to allow the Chinese investors to receiver full market compensation in those circumstances from the new government due to a change in the regulatory framework. And, in a way, some of the things that the Harper government has done, I understand second hand &ndash; but have not confirmed this myself &ndash; that&nbsp;<strong>one of the ministers, I think <a href="http://business.financialpost.com/2012/01/09/joe-olivers-open-letter-the-regulatory-system-is-broken/" rel="noopener">Joe Oliver</a>, had said at press conferences that they were changing the environmental laws because that&rsquo;s what the investors wanted. If he did in fact say something along these lines, the he could have done nothing more to feed the arguments to the &nbsp;investors&rsquo; lawyers down the road, if a new government decided to put the laws back in place. Because Chinese investors would be able to point specifically to his statements, which would be statements on behalf of Canada, that Canada was prepared to remove its environmental laws in order to bring in Chinese investment because that&rsquo;s what investors wanted. It almost becomes part of the deal. A new government can reverse that decision, but they will have to pay for it.</strong></p>
<p><strong><img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/Harper%20Joe%20Oliver%20China.jpeg"></strong></p>
<p>CL: Well, that is astounding to hear.</p>
<p>GVH:&nbsp;<strong>Yeah, it&rsquo;s kind of disheartening to those who care about, let&rsquo;s say, protecting the environment for future generations.</strong>&nbsp;But on the other hand, the system has invoked very strong reactions by some countries, and increasingly governments that don&rsquo;t put investor rights ahead of the rights and interests of everyone else are taking steps to unplug the system as best they can. But the decision to allow the China-Canada investment deal to come into effect will have the greatest impact on Canada&rsquo;s ability to take sovereign decision with respect to its resource sector since any treaty we have signed since NAFTA. And it is comparable to NAFTA in terms of the effect that it will have. Yet it does not allow any access by Canadian exporters to the Chinese market, unlike NAFTA for the U.S. market. For this reason, it seems to be just a very lopsided deal for Canada.</p>
<p>CL: And this is why the conversation that you see coming, even from conservatives, expressing concerns about the fact that China is <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/non-benevolent-china-a-concern-in-nexen-deal-tory-mp/article4549293/" rel="noopener">not a benevolent nation</a>, that this is why that statement is so significant. They&rsquo;re not talking about whether these are nice guys or not. This is a much more meaningful and significant thing to say about a county like China when you&rsquo;re preparing to engage in this kind of deal.</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: Well let me give you another example. Under the treaties investors are entitled to something called &lsquo;full protection and security&rsquo;. Now what that has been interpreted by arbitrators in some cases to mean, among other things, that the government has to protect the investors&rsquo; property, assets, from public opposition and public protest.&nbsp;<strong>So let&rsquo;s imagine that there are blockades of the pipeline as it&rsquo;s being built through British Columbia, let&rsquo;s say by <a href="http://bc.ctvnews.ca/high-profile-activist-vows-to-join-pipeline-blockade-1.899912" rel="noopener">native groups and by environmentalists</a>. The Chinese will have an expectation, backed by the treaty, that the Canadian government through its police, through the courts, will take strong steps to protect the Chinese investors&rsquo; business plans from public opposition.</strong></p>
<p>Now, sometimes public protests in opposition to foreign investments in other countries, I&rsquo;m thinking in particular of a couple of cases in Latin America, one involving oil <a href="http://amazonwatch.org/work/chevron" rel="noopener">drilling in the Amazon by Texaco and then Chevron</a>, and the other involving the disputes over a <a href="http://www.democracynow.org/2001/4/13/bolivian_security_forces_crack_down_on" rel="noopener">privatised water system in a city in Bolivia</a>, some of&nbsp;<strong>those protests have actually led to violence, people have died, and that becomes part of the context for the arbitrators deciding whether the governments&rsquo; protection of the investor were sufficient.&nbsp;</strong>So it&rsquo;s a concern, and&nbsp;<strong>I think it&rsquo;s fair to say the Chinese investors may have a different view of how to handle that kind of situation from what we&rsquo;re used to in Canada.</strong></p>
<p><strong><img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/Harper%20Miliatry%20China.jpeg"></strong></p>
<p>CL: And suddenly the onus is placed on the federal government to uphold this agreement, and their loyalty will in some sense be split between preserving this agreement that they have with the company and also protecting the rights of the citizens.</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: Yes, exact.&nbsp;<strong>So the question that the government will now have to face is, how is it going to balance its obligations to respect Canadian democratic protests, including when it&rsquo;s actually effective in frustrating a pipeline, to balance that against its new obligations to provide full protection and security, backed by a very powerful international arbitration process, which tends often to favour the investors in its legal approach, and to provide that full protection and security under the treaty to Chinese investors.</strong>&nbsp;That&rsquo;s the question the government will now have presented for itself.</p>
<p><em>[END OF INTERVIEW PART 2]</em></p>
<p><em>Gus Van Harten has written extensively on foreign investment deals. His research is freely available on the <a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=638855" rel="noopener">Social Science Research Network</a> and <a href="http://www.iiapp.org/" rel="noopener">International Investment Arbitration and Public Policy</a> website.</em></p>
<p>Stay tuned for Part 3 of my interviews with Gus Van Harten.</p>

<p><em><strong>The Narwhal’s reporters are telling environment stories you won’t read about anywhere else. Stay in the loop by <a href="https://thenarwhal.ca/newsletter/?utm_source=rss">signing up for our free weekly dose of independent journalism</a>.</strong></em></p>]]></content:encoded>
      <dc:creator><![CDATA[Carol Linnitt]]></dc:creator>
						<category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[canadian government]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[china]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[CNOOC]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[environmental legislation]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[environmental review]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[FIPA]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Foreign Investment Protection Agreement]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Gus Van Harten]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Harper Government]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[international arbitration]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[international tribunal]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Legislation]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Nexen]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Northern Gateway Pipeline]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[oil sands]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[pipelines]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Protest]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Q &amp; A]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[Safety]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[tar sands]]></category><category domain="post_tag"><![CDATA[transparency]]></category>			<media:content url="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Van_Harten1-1.jpeg" fileSize="4096" type="image/jpeg" medium="image" width="120" height="150"><media:credit></media:credit></media:content><media:thumbnail url="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Van_Harten1-1.jpeg" width="120" height="150" />    </item>
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      <title>China Investment Treaty &#8220;a Straitjacket&#8221; for Canada: Exclusive Interview with Trade Investment Expert Gus Van Harten</title>
      <link>https://thenarwhal.ca/china-canada-investment-treaty-designed-be-straight-jacket-canada-exclusive-interview-trade-investment-lawyer-gus-van/?utm_source=rss</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost.com/narwhal/2012/10/17/china-canada-investment-treaty-designed-be-straight-jacket-canada-exclusive-interview-trade-investment-lawyer-gus-van/</guid>
			<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:23:50 +0000</pubDate>			
			<description><![CDATA[This post is the first of a series on the Canada-China Investment &#34;Straitjacket:&#34; Exclusive Interview with Gus Van Harten. You can access Part 2 here and Part 3 here. I recently picked up a copy of Francis Fukuyama&#39;s 2011 book, The Origins of Political Order. Sitting on the bedside table at the house I was...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<figure><img width="120" height="150" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Van_Harten1.jpeg" class="attachment-banner size-banner wp-post-image" alt="" decoding="async" srcset="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Van_Harten1.jpeg 120w, https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Van_Harten1-16x20.jpeg 16w" sizes="(max-width: 120px) 100vw, 120px" /><figcaption><small><em></em></small></figcaption></figure> <p>This post is the first of a series on the <em>Canada-China Investment "Straitjacket:" Exclusive Interview with Gus Van Harten. You can access<a href="http://www.desmogblog.com/2012/10/16/china-canada-investment-straitjacket-interview-gus-van-harten-part-2" rel="noopener"> Part 2 here</a> and <a href="https://thenarwhal.ca/2012/10/18/china-canada-investment-straitjacket-interview-gus-van-harten-part-3">Part 3 here</a>.</em></p>
<p>I recently picked up a copy of Francis Fukuyama's 2011 book, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Origins-Political-Order-Prehuman-Revolution/dp/0374533229" rel="noopener">The Origins of Political Order</a>. Sitting on the bedside table at the house I was staying at, the book made for some 'light' bedtime reading. I heaved the enormous tome onto my lap and, opening it to a random page, read this alarming passage:&nbsp;</p>
<blockquote>
<p><em>There is no rule of law in China today: the Chinese Communist Party does not accept the authority of any other institution in China as superior to it or able to overturn its decisions. Although the People's Republic of China has a constitution, the party makes the constitution rather than the reverse. <strong>If the current Chinese government wanted to nationalize all existing foreign investments, or renationalize the holdings of private individuals and return the country to Maoism, there is no legal framework preventing it from doing so</strong>.&nbsp;</em> (Pg 248)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>My concerns with China's treatment of foreign investments arose in light of <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/09/21/nexen-canada-china-criticisms.html" rel="noopener">China's recent bid for Nexen</a>, a Canadian company with large holdings in the Alberta tar sands. Since Canada is having trouble with the management of the tar sands now, what would it look like if we had Chinese state-owned enterprises like the Chinese National Offshore Oil Company (CNOOC) in the mix?</p>
<p>It turns out the problem is of magnitudes greater than I had originally conceived, and concerns not only Canada's management of its resources, but its sovereignty, its democracy, and the protection of the rights and values of its citizens.</p>
<p>Perhaps most strikingly, Canada is embracing this threat, showing telltale signs the real culprit in this dangerous deal isn't China at all.</p>
<p>In order to untangle the web of an<a href="http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/china-chine/finalEA-china-chine-EEfinale.aspx?lang=eng&amp;view=d" rel="noopener"> </a><a href="http://thetyee.ca/Documents/2012/10/14/Canada-China%20FIPA%20and%20Explanatory%20Memorandum%208532-411-46(OCR).pdf" rel="noopener">international trade deal as complex as the China-Canada Investment Treaty</a>, which establishes the terms of the Nexen deal &ndash; the biggest overseas takeover by a Chinese company &ndash; &nbsp;I spoke with Professor <a href="http://www.osgoode.yorku.ca/faculty/full-time/gus-van-harten" rel="noopener">Gus Van Harten</a> of Osgoode Law School, an expert on foreign investment deals of this sort.</p>
<p>Below is Part 1 of our interview:</p>
<p><!--break--></p>
<p>Carol Linnitt: Thanks for taking my call, and for making time for me to ask you some questions. I really appreciate that.</p>
<p>[view:in_this_series=block_1]</p>
<p><strong>Gus Van Harten</strong>: No problem at all.</p>
<p>CL: I guess I&rsquo;ll just jump right in. The first question I have regards Canada&rsquo;s sovereignty over its resources when it engages in these kinds of transactions with state-owned enterprises. Could you talk about Canada&rsquo;s ability to maintain its sovereignty over the tar sands with this potential Chinese acquisition of Nexen under the Canada-China investment deal?</p>
<p>	<strong>GVH</strong>: Okay, so when we talk about sovereignty, the way a country exercises sovereignty over its territory is by being able to pass laws and enact regulations that apply to companies and anyone else operating in its territory. And if there are any disputes about the laws or the regulations, then those get decided in the courts of the country.</p>
<p>What&rsquo;s really different about the China-Canada investment deal &ndash; although it tracks especially NAFTA in Canada's case, although NAFTA obviously relates to American investors &ndash; is that it allows disputes about how laws and regulations or even court decisions have been made, to <a href="http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1264290--canada-china-investment-deal-allows-for-confidential-lawsuits-against-canada" rel="noopener">be decided outside of the Canadian courts</a>. So they&rsquo;re decided by international arbitrators at the option of the investor&hellip;and the China-Canada investment deal and many of these other investment treaties &hellip; give the power, and quite immense power, to the investor to challenge any decision that Canada would make, whether by the Canadian Parliament, or a provincial legislature, by the Supreme Court of Canada or a lower court, or by Cabinet or some low-level government official. Anything can be challenged by skipping Canadian courts and going straight to these international arbitrators.</p>
<p>And the international arbitration process, for a number of reasons, is really, I would say, without wishing to make personal allegations about any of the arbitrators, objectively slanted in favour of the investors. That&rsquo;s not unique to the China-Canada deal. But what is unique is that this is the first time since NAFTA that Canada is entering into a deal that allows for these kinds of lawsuits with a country that is likely to have investors that own a lot of assets in Canada. Okay? You get my drift?</p>
<p>CL: Yes.</p>
<p><img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/harper%20china%20boardroom.jpeg"></p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: So Canada has other investment deals with countries like Romania, but there are not a lot of Romanian investors in Canada. There are more Canadian investors in Romania. But in this case it seems very likely that there will be a lot more Chinese investment in Canada than Canadian investment in China, and that&rsquo;s because the China-Canada investment deal has another element, which is that it does not require each country to open up its economy to investment from the other country. Now, Canada is already very open to foreign investment, including Chinese investment, whereas China is relatively closed.</p>
<p>So for that reason, going forward, we are likely to see major purchases of assets in the resource sector, especially the oil sands obviously, by Chinese companies, but I don&rsquo;t think we&rsquo;re likely to see anything like the same amount of investment by Canadian companies in China, because the Chinese government won&rsquo;t allow it, it puts more restrictions on foreign investments. You have to do a joint venture, for example.</p>
<p>	They just won&rsquo;t allow their major companies to be bought up by foreigners in the way that Canada has in the last 10, 15 years. And Canada is increasingly open to having that done, because the Harper government has <a href="http://www.ipolitics.ca/2012/05/25/threshold-for-foreign-takeover-review-will-rise-to-1-billion-christian-paradis/" rel="noopener">raised the threshold for the review of foreign takeovers of Canadian companies</a> under the investment Canada Act from about 330 million now, it&rsquo;s going to go up in about 5 years to 1 billion dollars, meaning <a href="http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/05/30/gus-van-harten-laissez-faire-foreign-investment-policy-is-bad/" rel="noopener">the Chinese can buy any Canadian company worth less than a billion dollars without any government review</a>, under the usual process, under the Investment Canada Act. So the Nexen takeover is subject to review because it&rsquo;s worth more than a billion but <em>there could be a lot of purchases by Chinese investors we won&rsquo;t even hear about</em>.</p>
<p><strong>The point is, we&rsquo;re open to foreign investment, and it&rsquo;s only once the investment is allowed in that the rights of the foreign investors kick in under the deal. So it&rsquo;s much more likely that Chinese investors will benefit from being able to sue any Canadian exercise of sovereignty than vice-versa.</strong></p>
<p><strong><img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/Harper%20canada%20china%20business%20forum.jpeg"></strong></p>
<p>CL: What kind of potential litigation do you see happening? What are the types of regulatory frameworks or legal frameworks that you could foresee being a problem, say in the development of the tar sands?</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: I&rsquo;ve tracked all the known investment treaty lawsuits brought by companies, and most of these lawsuits are brought by American and Western European companies against developing countries. But there&rsquo;s been a lot of lawsuits against Canada under NAFTA, and <strong>Canada&rsquo;s been sued more than any other developed country</strong>. A Chinese company just <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/china-turns-to-courts-in-business-disputes-with-western-governments/article4590246/" rel="noopener">launched its first lawsuit against Belgium</a> for two or three billion dollars, which is a very large amount, involving the kind of winding-down or takeover of a Belgian bank, in which the Chinese invested before the last financial crisis. <strong>So it&rsquo;s quite reasonable to expect Chinese investors will be in a position to sue Canada</strong> in the way that other companies have sued other countries under these treaties.</p>
<p>Now in tracking those cases to date, there are about 300 that have led to a known decision, not all of which you can really evaluate, so it&rsquo;s maybe between 150 and 200 that can be evaluated on this point; that is, what kind of disputes do they relate to? There are four main areas:</p>
<p>1) One of the major areas is resource disputes. Resource disputes lead to a lot of investor lawsuits in cases to date.</p>
<p>2) Another area is environmental and health regulations, and I would say most of the lawsuits against Canada under NAFTA, there have been about 30, relate to one of those two areas, a significant majority. So <strong>we have a reasonable basis to expect that Chinese investors, where we make decisions in the resource sector and/or related to health and environmental regulations, that they will generate lawsuits under investment treaties</strong>.</p>
<p>3) The other two areas incidentally are privatisation, disputes arising from privatisation of major infrastructures, such as water systems or gas transmission lines, led to a lot of disputes. So if we&rsquo;re talking about a privately owned pipeline, subject to regulation in Canada, then that is also an area that&rsquo;s ripe for investor-state disputes that could be resolved by these arbitrators.</p>
<p>4) The fourth area is tax disputes and financial sector disputes, and those often link in to the resource sector too, because a government will, for example raise royalty rates on the basis that there has been a windfall profit. This has happened in the oil and gas sectors. Many countries have put new taxes on what they consider to be windfall profits by companies in the relevant sector, and those have generated disputes.</p>
<p><strong>So I really can&rsquo;t imagine any area of government decision making in Canada other than the resource sector specifically, with the huge money that&rsquo;s going to be wrapped up in the oil sands, and on piping the oil out of the oil sands, that would be more likely to lead to disputes involving Canada.</strong></p>
<p>When we open up other areas of the resource sector, like in the north, in northern Ontario, the Ring of Fire, those will also be ripe for disputes if there&rsquo;s a significant foreign investment, which there almost certainly will be.</p>
<p>	The biggest loss for Canada under NAFTA was a lawsuit brought by companies owned partly by Exxon against Canada, because of Canada and Newfoundland &amp; Labrador&rsquo;s process for putting research and development spending requirements on companies operating in the Hibernia, Terra Nova oil projects were objected to by the foreign Exxon-owned companies. The tribunal based that decision on a reading of Canada&rsquo;s exceptions, Canada actually had exempted Hibernia and Terra nova from the NAFTA provisions, but the tribunal apparently adopted a, very unfriendly for us, interpretation of those exceptions, making them very narrow, and we lost on that basis. This is significant because we&rsquo;re relying on the same types of exceptions in the Canada-China deal.</p>
<p><img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/harper%20china%20platform.jpeg"></p>
<p>CL: So that means that not only can China, say for example, challenge the current regulatory framework, but they can also retroactively challenge pre-existing Canadian decisions about Canadian resources?</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: Yes, they can challenge existing decisions, and they can challenge existing legal frameworks, although there are grandfathering provisions with respect for some of the standards in the treaty. But it gets quite complicated as to which existing laws are exempted and which are not, and this goes back to the point about the case I just mentioned. It&rsquo;s that <strong>the arbitrators may not consider Canada&rsquo;s exceptions for its existing laws, including provincial laws, they may not consider them sufficient to avoid liability in the way that the Canadian government is telling us that they are</strong>. And incidentally I should add also, the case in which this was decided is called <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/06/01/canada-nafta-exxon_n_1562996.html" rel="noopener">Mobil Oil and Murphy Oil versus Canada</a>. The award in that case was issued in May of this year, and, despite Canada&rsquo;s government stated policy to make all documents public, it is still sitting on that award and has not made it public. So we cannot see the basis on which the arbitrators in effect defeated our exceptions under NAFTA, reportedly, and we cannot evaluate the risks associated with using potentially the same exceptions under the Canada-China deal as well as other trade deals the government is negotiating.</p>
<p>CL: So there&rsquo;s no way at this current stage that we could make an informed decision about whether the China Nexen deal would potentially be a good thing for Canada?</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: Well I&rsquo;m not sure about that, but anyone outside the government is unable to evaluate whether or not the exceptions that the government is relying on to exempt certain existing laws are really reliable, or whether this decision actually frustrates our legal approach, or both.</p>
<p><em>[The exceptions Van Harten is referring to are stated clearly in this <a href="http://thetyee.ca/Documents/2012/10/14/Canada-China%20FIPA%20and%20Explanatory%20Memorandum%208532-411-46(OCR).pdf" rel="noopener">explanatory memorandum</a>.]</em></p>
<p>This isn&rsquo;t a central point, I should add, this is something of a more peripheral point to what we were speaking about earlier. The bigger point is that <strong>we&rsquo;re essentially delegating a judicial component of Canadian sovereignty to international arbitrators. And the arbitrators, I should stress, are not subject to review in any court, whether a Canadian court, or an international court. And the arbitrators themselves aren&rsquo;t judges. In this case the arbitrators are often corporate lawyers whose main career is to work for large companies and other foreign investors, or they&rsquo;re moonlighting academics, or sometimes they&rsquo;re members of corporate boards. </strong></p>
<p><strong>Put it this way, the process is not independent in the way that most Canadians would think of a judicial process.&nbsp;</strong></p>
<p>The other point that&rsquo;s quite important is that it is very reasonable to expect that in relation to Canada&rsquo;s resource sector, because of the amount of money at stake and the possibility that governments will try to take steps to ensure that Canadians and the Canadian economy benefit from the exploitation of our finite resource. This is something that all governments have an obligation to do, some do better than others.&nbsp;</p>
<p>If a new government came in or if the circumstances change, say the price of oil in the international market goes up to $200 a barrel, we could quite likely see a government say, &ldquo;Well, we&rsquo;re going to raise the royalty rates&rdquo;, or they&rsquo;re going to say, &ldquo;We&rsquo;ve got enough, we don&lsquo;t need to attract as much foreign investment anymore, so we&rsquo;re going to start demanding a bit more of a share from these projects.&rdquo;</p>
<p>	<strong>That is just a minefield under the Canada-China investment deal for lawsuits by China against Canada, and these would potentially be multi-billion dollar lawsuits. The largest lawsuit I&rsquo;ve heard of is a lawsuit against Pakistan that involves claims in excess of 100 billion dollars, which is sort of hard to get your head around.</strong></p>
<p>CL: Yes.</p>
<p><img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/harper%20china%20boardroom%20large.jpeg"></p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: It's a massively important decision-making power that the arbitrators have.</p>
<p>CL: And when this sort of international arbitration occurs, is it usually for the purpose of an award, or can it also be for the purpose of re-establishing a legal framework in favour of the investors? Say the investor has a problem with the way that the local government wants to build a pipeline, or manage a certain resource, or deal with privatisation of resources. Can the decision of this international arbitrator actually end up instituting certain laws or changes in the legal framework?</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: Generally the arbitrators do not do that; they just award money. They require compensation of the foreign investor out of the public purse of the government. Now that in itself reflects a change in the government's decision, because the government will have taken a decision to pass a law, it will have said &lsquo;we&rsquo;re not going to compensate everyone in the world who is disadvantaged by this law.&rsquo; That&rsquo;s not how parliaments work.</p>
<p><strong>When Parliaments pass a general law, they don&rsquo;t compensate all the businesses that now have lost profits they would otherwise have earned over the next ten or twenty years had the law not been passed. But the arbitrators <em>do</em> award that kind of compensation in some cases. They order, in effect, the state to pay compensation for legislation when parliament otherwise would not have, or when the Canadian courts would have ordered parliament not to have done it. So in that way they change decisions but the change is related to the monetary implications for taxpayers.</strong></p>
<p>CL: Right.</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: <strong>Now the monetary implications in themselves can be huge and can actually exceed in their impact a non-monetary order. It&rsquo;s actually easier sometimes for a government just to change a decision or tweak it than to have to pay a massive award for all the lost profits of the investors. The threat of a lawsuit, especially if it involves a lot of money, can be used in the early stages of a dispute to get a government to change decisions, or to deter it from making certain decisions.</strong> It&rsquo;s not clear the extent to which this happens because it&rsquo;s extremely difficult to research, because we never really hear about these cases, because they never lead to an award, they get settled even sometimes before the investor has brought a claim. You see what I mean?</p>
<p>CL: Yes, absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: Threaten Canada with a lawsuit, and parliament changes its decision while it&rsquo;s still in the committee stage. We could find out about that. Or for, for example, <strong>the federal government may lean on a provincial government to change its decision. We might never know.&nbsp;</strong></p>
<p><img alt="" src="https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/china%20harper_0.jpeg"></p>
<p>CL: So in effect, when these massive state-owned enterprises are purchasing large stakes in a resource, they&rsquo;ve got big muscles to flex, basically, they have a lot of&nbsp;power to exercise in the way laws are managed and shaped.</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: <strong>These treaties are like a dream for the lawyers who work for big companies. It&rsquo;s just a wonderful additional tool to use to threaten and intimidate and beat up on governments.</strong></p>
<p>	And I believe that lawyers in Canada, Canadian lawyers in law firms, may be quite keen on the China-Canada investment deal as they see work for themselves, representing Chinese investors and helping them understand how they can sue, or threaten to sue, governments in Canada. And in fact, <strong>it&rsquo;s regularly the case that you have this section of the Canadian legal community that promotes actively the ability of foreign investors to sue or threaten to sue the Canadian government</strong>.</p>
<p>CL: My goodness, the more you talk about this, the more it sounds like absolute madness.</p>
<p><strong>GVH</strong>: Yeah, I&rsquo;ve hardly even gotten started.</p>
<p><em>[END OF INTERVIEW PART 1]</em></p>
<p>	<em>Gus Van Harten has written extensively on foreign investment deals. His research is freely available on the <a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=638855" rel="noopener">Social Science Research Network</a></em>&nbsp;<em>and the <a href="http://www.iiapp.org/" rel="noopener">International Investment Arbitration and Public Policy</a> website</em><em>.</em></p>
<p>The Harper government has recently decided to <a href="http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Federal+government+gives+itself+another+days+decide+Nexen/7374222/story.html" rel="noopener">extend the review period for the CNOOC purchase of Nexen for an additional 30 days</a> until mid-November. The China-Canada Agreement, however, is slated to pass into legislation on October 31, 2012 without open parliamentary debate.&nbsp;</p>
<p>Campaing organizations<a href="http://www.leadnow.ca/canada-not-for-sale-sou" rel="noopener"> </a><a href="http://www.leadnow.ca/canada-not-for-sale" rel="noopener">Leadnow.ca</a><a href="http://www.leadnow.ca/canada-not-for-sale-sou" rel="noopener"> and SumofUs.org have launched an effort</a> to stop this deal before it's even begun.</p>
<p>	Stay tuned for Part 2 of this series based on my interviews with Gus Van Harten.</p>
<p><em>Images from <a href="http://pm.gc.ca/eng/media_gallery.asp?featureId=7&amp;pageId=29&amp;media_category_typ_id=3&amp;media_category_id=2079" rel="noopener">"PM Visits China" Photo Gallery</a>.</em></p>

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      <dc:creator><![CDATA[Carol Linnitt]]></dc:creator>
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